SHOW NOTES

Welcome back to the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast, hosted by Andrew Keel. In this episode of the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast our host Andrew Keel interviews John Lindley, President of the Michigan Manufactured Housing Association.

Since taking the helm as President and CEO of the 80-year-old Michigan Manufactured Housing, RV, and Campground Association in October 2021, John Lindley has become a leading advocate for the future of the manufactured housing industry. Before assuming his current role, John gained extensive experience as a lobbyist with Public Affairs Associates, one of Lansing’s most respected government relations firms, bringing that expertise to his leadership at the Michigan Manufactured Housing Association.

In this episode, Andrew Keel and John Lindley dive deep into the crucial intersection of legislation and the mobile home park industry. John provides valuable insights on how mobile home park community owners can actively support Manufactured Housing Associations, emphasizing the importance of board involvement and not just donations. He also stresses the need for mobile home park owners to stay informed and to communicate effectively with legislators, using precise language to ensure their concerns are heard on key issues affecting mobile home park management.

Tune in now to gain actionable strategies and expert insights from Andrew Keel and John Lindley, designed to help you succeed in the evolving mobile home park investing landscape!

***Andrew Keel and Keel Team Real Estate Investments (Keel Team, LLC) do not endorse any interviewee. This interview is for informational purposes only and should not be depended upon for investment purposes. ***

Andrew Keel is the owner of Keel Team, LLC, a Top 100 Owner of Manufactured Housing Communities with over 3,000 lots under management. His team currently manages over 40 manufactured housing communities across more than 10 states. His expertise is in turning around under-managed manufactured housing communities by utilizing proven systems to maximize the occupancy while reducing operating costs. He specializes in bringing in homes to fill vacant lots, implementing utility bill back programs, and improving overall management and operating efficiencies, all of which significantly boost the asset value and net operating income of the communities. Check out KeelTeam.com to learn more.

Andrew has been featured on some of the Top Podcasts in the manufactured housing space, click here to listen to his most recent interviews:  https://www.keelteam.com/podcast-links. In order to successfully implement his management strategy, Andrew’s team usually moves on location during the first several months of ownership. Find out more about Andrew’s story at AndrewKeel.com.

Book a 1 on 1 consultation with Andrew Keel to discuss:

• A deal review
• Due diligence questions
• How to raise capital from investors
• Mistakes to avoid, and more!

Click Here: https://intro.co/AndrewKeel

Are you getting value out of this show? If so, please head over to iTunes and leave the show a quick review. I have a goal of hitting over 500 total 5-star reviews, and it would mean the absolute world to me if you could help contribute to that. Thanks ahead of time for making my day with your review of the show.

Would you like to see value-add mobile home park projects in progress? If so, follow us on Instagram: @passivemhpinvesting for photos and awesome videos from our recent mobile home park acquisitions.

Talking Points:

00:21 – Welcome to the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing Podcast

0:30 – John Lindley’s journey to his current role as the head of the Michigan Manufactured Housing Association

03:38 – The Mobile Home Park Industry is under fire with legislative changes

05:36 – Providing value to mobile home park community owners

07:45 – Housing supply crisis in Michigan and how to assist with legislation changes

14:26 – What matters most to mobile home park community owners and operators

23:29 – Is now a good time to invest in Mobile Home Parks in Michigan?

25:30 – Diverse homes, poor communication, zoning, and how initiatives like “NIMBY”(Not In My Backyard) have made zoning even more restrictive for mobile home parks

28:56 – Reaching out to John Lindley of the Michigan Manufactured Housing Association

29:50 – Engage in your manufactured housing state association and be aware of what your state associations are doing on behalf of all mobile home park investors in that state

30:30 – Conclusion

SUBSCRIBE TO PASSIVE MOBILE HOME PARK INVESTING PODCAST YOUTUBE CHANNEL https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCy9uI3KGQmFgABsr9lUtRTQ

Links & Mentions from This Episode:

Michigan Manufactured Housing Association: https://www.michhome.org/

John Lindley’s contact number: 517-449-0487

Keel Team’s official website: https://www.keelteam.com/ 

Andrew Keel’s official website: https://www.andrewkeel.com/  

Andrew Keel LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewkeel 

Andrew Keel Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/PassiveMHPinvestingPodcast

Andrew Keel Instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/passivemhpinvesting/

Twitter: @MHPinvestors

---

TRANSCRIPT

Andrew: Welcome to the Passive Mobile Home Park Investing podcast. This is your host, Andrew Keel. Today, we have a special guest in Mr. John Lindley, president and CEO of the Michigan Manufactured Housing Association. 

Before we dive in, please don’t forget to leave a review if you get value out of this episode. It means the absolute world to me and keeps me motivated to keep recording these. All right, let’s dive in. 

John Linley is the president and CEO of the Michigan Manufactured Housing RV and Campground Association. Since October of 2021, he has led the 80-year-old organization headquartered in Okemos, Michigan. John joined the association after nearly nine years as a lobbyist with Public Affairs Associates, one of Lansing’s most respected government relations consultant firms. John, welcome to the show.

John: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

Andrew: Would you mind starting out by telling us about your story and how you got into your current role as the head of the Michigan Manufactured Housing Association?

John: I started my career in the legislature as a staff member from a member of the State House of Representatives, have always been really a policy wonk focused on policy, and cut my teeth with a large statewide trade association here in Michigan, the Michigan Association of CPAs, nearly 19,000 certified public accountant members in the State of Michigan. I worked there for 11-plus years at the association driving the bus, so to speak, on all things policy, legislative, and political agenda with the organization. 

After doing that for better than a decade, I went on to work for a contract lobbying firm, one of the state’s public affairs associates that you referred to one of the state’s leading contract lobby firms. While at that firm one of the firm’s oldest and bookend clients is this organization, Michigan Manufactured Housing RV and Campground Association. When I joined the firm, one of the first clients that I started working on their engagements was this association. 

After almost a decade of doing that, I was ready for a different direction for my career. At the same time, the association was ready for new leadership after the retirement of a couple of long-time executive directors here, names that many of your listeners will recognize, Tim Dewitt and Bill Schaeffer. Having worked in that capacity as a consultant for them for a long time, the transition (I like to think) was good and more seamless than what it could have been. 

So that’s my story. I’m ecstatic to be in this role. I come from, like I said, a background in association management and policy, and that’s where I truly love to be.

Andrew: I love that. What would you say is the hardest part of your job running the Manufactured Housing Association in Michigan?

John: Right now, the hardest part of my job is the industry is under fire a little bit. I’m defense when it comes to some legislative priorities and the vision that some policymakers have that (let’s just say) doesn’t mesh well with what I think the industry’s vision for itself would be. That certainly is one of the challenges at the current moment. 

But I think that overall if you were to take that away, the biggest challenge with an organization like this one is the diversity of its membership and meeting the needs and meeting the value proposition of a diverse membership. 

Our members, the Michigan Manufactured Housing Association, represent the entire supply chain of the industry, from the builders—Champions, Skyline, Cavco, Clayton, you name them—from those who are manufacturing, transport, installer, servicers, retail, certainly the bread and butter are the community owners. But community owners aren’t just community owners. Community owners come in lots of different shapes and sizes and diversity. The diversity of the membership of lending, finance, legal, all the above. 

In the association world, not to oversimplify it, but your job can be boiled down to a couple of very simple things. You need to provide value to your members, and then you need to tell them what value you’re providing to them. Kind of a hey, look what we’re doing for you, so they continue to be members. That first part is complicated and difficult, making sure that you’re providing value to all of those members on a daily basis.

Andrew: And how do you do that? What’s the number one way specifically for community owners? Because I know there are a lot of community owners that listen to this podcast. What’s the number one way you guys add value for mobile home community owners?

John: Well, that takes us full circle to the first comment that I made. Without question right now, and even in better times, the top way that the organization adds value is through legislative advocacy. I truly believe that to the core. I think that most community owners, when you speak to them, would agree with that. 

We do a lot of other wonderful things. We spend a large amount of resources, time, and energy in promoting manufactured housing to consumers, to the press, to the right […], and we’re trying to raise that bar of the industry and the product that you all have, hooking members up with members through networking and those types of opportunities is very important. 

There’s a lot to that value proposition, but I truly feel unquestionably that legislative advocacy, because in a nutshell, there isn’t anybody else doing it. That’s what we’re there to do, is to have that collective voice for the industry, so the members of the legislature know when I walk in their door and talk to them about a particular measure, that I’m speaking on behalf of 1100 licensed communities in the State of Michigan, and frankly the 250,000-plus Michiganders who live in those communities.

Andrew: Which is huge. Maybe you can go into the details of what’s going on specifically. There have been some Senate bills 486 through 492 that have been proposed, talking about rent control and the likes of it, along with some other additional regulation, I would say Michigan, specifically. 

I know Iowa’s had a lot of hits recently as well, but I would say you’re probably one of the states at the top. There are news articles that quite consistently talking about the State of Michigan and how private equity is ruining all the mobile home parks. If you listen to the journalists, they don’t talk about the millions of dollars being reinvested into these parks. Maybe you can talk specifically about what’s going on in your state.

John: Well Michigan, not unlike other parts of the country, is facing a housing supply and affordability crisis. That has shined a bright light in a magnifying glass on so many different things. I like to say that with 1100 licensed communities in the State of Michigan, and Michigan is a very heavy community state without a doubt, that the vast majority of those communities, and of course, that the Michigan Manufactured Housing Association members. provide a safe, affordable, warm, welcoming place for Michiganders to live.

But there are some that don’t meet that standard from a quality perspective and otherwise. That light has been shown on some of those poor examples of (let’s call them what they are) run-down trailer parks that exist in some different places. 

When you’re on a collision course with a more progressive-minded democratic control—this isn’t political commentary, it’s just the reality of the situation we are in—more progressively-minded House of Representatives, the Senate, certainly the governor’s administration, that you have those factors collide. What you result in is a legislative and regulatory environment that has us on heels a little bit and digging in defense.

You referenced a specific package of legislation that exists right now, Senate Bill 486 through 492. But as an organization, we’re actually tracking just under 80 pieces of legislation in Michigan right now. I’ll tell you that we’re opposed to about 60 of those pieces out of the 80 pieces of legislation. There’s a bucket of bills that are specific to manufactured housing, like the ones that you referenced. 

But it’s not just manufactured housing. The legislature has rental housing landlords and housing providers (in general) in their crosshairs right now, with a bunch of just frankly ludicrous proposals. What they don’t understand from our perspective—this gets to our job is to educate them—is the impact that these proposals would have on the supply and the affordability of the housing that’s in the State of Michigan. We’re fighting a lot of battles on a lot of fronts right now in the Capitol.

Andrew: You might have touched on it, but what’s the best way for community owners like myself, I’m an association member, what else can we do to help with that education of some of these rent control bills that are being proposed and so forth? 

I’ve read a quite a bit about it, and it seems like that’s only going to restrict supply further and that’s what it’s done in the past. What’s your guys’ approach and how do you go to bat when you try to overcome those objections?

John: There are two answers to that question. The first one is really simple, and I’m not going to dive too far deep into it because it’s not my role. That is to say, do a good job at managing your community because that helps all of us. Be transparent with your residents, have rent increases that are reasonable, do it right. Be a good operator and do the right thing. That helps. 

When industry members get together and they use the cliche of, yes, of course there are bad apples, don’t be one of them. Don’t be the bad apple. That’s number one and that’s easy. 

Number two though, and it all comes down to time, Andrew, and that’s the reality of it, what I’m about to tell you takes time. I realize that the community owners and operators are really very busy people. Some people have the ability to give time more than others, and here’s what I mean by that. 

Yes, being an association member, that’s number one. We need everybody to be a member of the association. And that’s not just a financial transaction. That means everybody’s under the umbrella when we talk about our membership. Engaging in the association’s efforts is a particular use when it comes to this. 

When we send a note to all of our members that are community owners with sample language that says, hey, please reach out to your state senator and to your state representative, here are their names, here are their contact information, we do everything that we can to make it as easy as possible. We even provide the sample language. Please send them this message coming from you so that they know what your position is on this issue. We need people that answer that call.

Andrew: I love that you do that. I haven’t gotten that from any other state association, and literally, I sent it out to my whole team. We had 50 people copy and paste it into an email and send it to our local representative. And think of the traction now that we’re getting because it’s not just one person reaching out. You make it easy, and that helps.

John: That’s our role. We’re asking you to give a piece of your time. The least we can do is make it as easy for you as possible to do so. That’s part of that strategy when we’re fighting this. 

I can pick up my cell phone right now and I can have the speaker of the house on the other end of the phone. That’s part of my job is to have that level of access. But like everybody else, I can only vote for one member of the House of Representatives. 

They need to hear from the people that live, work, own businesses and operate in their districts, and that’s that grassroots level engagement that we need to take place. 

The other part of it, I’ll tell you again, is it does come down to dollars and cents sometimes, is the supporting the political action committee. There’s a financial aspect of this as well. We need to be able to support candidates that we want to see win elections or win reelection that have a tendency to provide us, number one, with the access that we need to explain our side of the story, and number two, have the tendency to align themselves with that side of the story.

Andrew: That makes a lot of sense. I know on the Michigan Manufactured Association board of directors, there are several big fish from some of the largest manufactured housing community owners in the country, including Sun Communities, Yes! Communities, Cambio Communities. What are they specifically wanting to change in the State of Michigan in regards to their ability to operate, or what specific agendas matter most to those large community owners?

John: I think those large community owners and the agendas that exist for them at the moment is the agenda that exists for all. When you look at our board of directors, yes, a representative from Sun is on the board, a representative from Yes!, Cambio. But you’ve also got Marge Burns from Germano Management. She owns two communities in Michigan. You’ve got a manufacturer. You’ve got a supplier. Bill Anderson from Atwell who does engineering for so many people. It’s a diverse group. 

I would say that because the association, our strategic plan, and the way our governance structures exist, that the priorities for those members of the board and for the larger operators in the State of Michigan are very much aligned with the priorities of the operators in the other segments of the supply chain.

You heard me reference before, Michigan’s affordability and supply crisis when it comes to housing. Right now, that has created an opportunity for us really to make sure that the industry is positioned and positioned well as a solution to those questions. 

The State of Michigan is spending hundreds of millions of dollars every year on housing efforts, whether that comes in the form of tax credits or other programming throughout the state. Historically, none of that has been available to or impacting manufactured housing. 

What we’re doing is we’re throwing some elbows in the legislature and with the administration to say, hey, you’re ignoring what is arguably, when it comes to speed to market, energy, efficiency, quality, and affordability, you can’t match the product that we have right now. You just simply can’t manage it, number one. 

Number two, you’re also talking about a situation where these residents are beginning to build some equity in something. Certainly, rentals are rentals and that needs to be a part of the market. I’m not suggesting that it shouldn’t, but in the land lease model where people are starting to build some equity in something and not just pouring money into that endless hole of rental, that’s where opportunity comes from, is starting to build back something. 

It’s being and has historically been fundamentally ignored by the policy makers that are making these decisions. We’re shining a light on that and making some headway, I’ll add.

Andrew: Which is great, but how could you talk about affordable housing and not mention manufactured housing? It could be built for less than half the price of a site-built house. It is more green as well. A lot of people forget that. Clayton Homes at the congress and expo. The trash from one home fits in one trash bin. 

I live in a neighborhood and they’re building up houses around me. They come in and take a 40 cubic yard dumpster every week. It takes them probably three or four months to build this house. It’s something not talked about enough. 

Another thing just from my perspective, there was an article that came out—geez, we’re recording this, it’s August 2024—in June, on mlive.com, there was an article that said, as private equity buys up mobile home parks, Michigan ranks second highest. 

That caught me off guard when I saw that. I was surprised. I thought it would be Texas or Florida, something like that in the Sun Belt, one of those big states where there are a lot of acquisitions. I’m just curious because I wouldn’t say that Michigan is the most landlord-friendly of states, but why do you think Michigan is ranking so high?

John: Well, first of all, I think it needs to be said that going back to that article, you’ll find that I was quoted in that article as rejecting the notion, number one, that community quality and community affordability is anywhere tied to who owns and certainly the geographic location of the owner. 

In fact, I’ll even take it a step further that if you dig into the details and the sources for that article, they don’t know what “private equity” even is. They talk about a specific owner-operator that isn’t private equity. Their line seems to be geographically where the owner of the community is located. If their corporate headquarters is in another state, then that in their mind—

Andrew: Think that’s private equity.

John: Yes, and that it’s bad. You forgive me, Andrew. I’m going on a little bit of a tangent here. As you can imagine, I’ve been hit with that a number of times from different perspectives. I use the example of Yes! Communities. There’s a horrible tornado in Southwest Michigan in May that really hit the community hard. You had several dozen homes that were destroyed and families that were displaced and all the above. 

Before the sun rose the next morning, emergency services were in that community. They were removing trees, they were finding temporary housing for the residents. They had food, they had shelter, they had water. They had a plan immediately to make sure that those residents were taken care of. That type of apparatus requires a level of sophistication and resources.

Andrew: A big team.

John: Absolutely. Taking nothing away from the mom and pop operations that exist throughout the country, but an operation of lesser sophistication would still be trying to get the lights back on potentially. This notion that big bad means ugly, I reject that on its surface.

Andrew: They mentioned something else in the article that I feel a lot of people don’t know. They mentioned, oh, a lot of these private equity firms are using government debt through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy these. The government is somehow encouraging the abuse of lower income families, taking advantage of that. 

But what they don’t realize from myself, who’s done several Freddie and Fanny loans, is that in those loan covenants, there are tenant protections that we’re required to sign on, giving the residents longer lease terms and other protections and guarantees of quality that will be kept in the community, or that loan can be called due. 

They don’t know the specifics of how it all works, but I don’t think it’s a total bad thing when you have someone with big resources and a bigger organization with a professional management company that can manage these assets at a higher level.

John: Well, that doesn’t sell papers, right Andrew? That’s the reality of it. That part of the story. The other part of the story that I like to tell, and there are examples of it all over the State of Michigan. One example that I’ll use in Clinton Township, Michigan, where a company, a larger operator not located in Michigan, bought a community with 950 sites. Huge community. 

Well, there were about 450 homes in that community when it was purchased. Since then, they’ve invested over $12 million in cap, and moved in 500 new homes over a 5 year period of time. Three clubhouses, trees, sidewalks, roads, signage, lights, 500 new homes. It’s beautiful. 

When you talk about the association, again, one of our jobs is to tell that story and to say, look, when you go through everything that I just said, did the rent tick up on those residents in that community a little? Yeah, it did. But you can’t have the conversation about affordability and the conversation about quality in a vacuum. You can’t have those two conversations in a vacuum.

Andrew: It makes a lot of sense. Is now a good time to invest in mobile home parks in Michigan?

John: Oh, I certainly would say so. Despite potentially the doom and gloom of the legislative, at least the portrayal of doom and gloom of the legislature that I’ve given in the course of this podcast, I would absolutely say that. 

The association’s doing, I believe, very good work here in Michigan in defending against those proposals that would be detrimental to the business environment, number one. But number two, advancing the dialogue and the conversation about manufactured housing, and those solutions that exist throughout the State of Michigan. 

We’re working with, I hate to use the sports metaphor, but while we’re on defense, we’re also on offense on a number of things. I’m working with members of the legislature right now on some reformed zoning in the State of Michigan, that’ll make it easier for manufactured housing communities to expand, new manufactured housing communities to be built throughout the state. They need housing. 

Our job fundamentally, beyond just that, is to make sure that people understand that these are not the trailers and the trailer parks that so many people look to back pre-HUD days. That’s not what we’re talking about. We have to take the product to people and people to the product so that they can see what’s going on. I do believe that it’s a good time to invest in manufactured housing in the State of Michigan.

Andrew: That’s good. More supply. I love what you said about getting the zoning initiative pushed further ahead, because I think that’s where it’s been so difficult to build new. If that was easier, I think we would have more affordable housing units, for sure. 

Let’s go into our lightning round, John, just a couple of quick questions here, and you can just give quick answers and we’ll go right into the next one. What do you think the perfect mobile home park looks like in your eyes, and why?

John: I think the perfect mobile home park, in my eyes, has diverse homes as far size as and price and set of those homes. A community that’s got some single sections, some multi sections, some broad sets and narrow sets. Certainly a clubhouse and the ability to recreate for its residents. Good roads, sidewalks, lights, safe, warm, welcoming environment for its residents.

Andrew: That’s great. Like a subdivision, right?

John: Yeah.

Andrew: How can a community owner, an owner of a mobile home community, what would be very detrimental, something they could do that would run the property into the ground? Something maybe you’ve seen or just some of those bad eggs that we were talking about earlier.

John: I’d say one of the most immediate and detrimental things that a community owner-operator could do is to not communicate and the lack of transparency with your residents. That’s key. Rent increases are going to happen. Rule changes are going to take place. Rule enforcement is going to happen. Those types of things have to happen for the safety and the enjoyment of all residents of that community. 

By and large, residents just want to know what’s going on. Communication and transparency is (I think) the absolute number one driving force that can make sure that the relationship between the residents and the owner-operator is positive.

Andrew: That’s a good point. What’s the biggest threat to manufactured housing communities in your eyes, John?

John: I think right now the biggest threat to manufactured housing communities is zoning. These legislative fights will come and go. They’ll come and go with different power shifts, whether it’s in Congress or the state legislatures and the governor’s mansions throughout the country. Those will come and go. There are red states, there are blue states, all of that type of stuff. 

But at a local level, unfortunately, I believe NIMBYism (not in my backyard) is alive and well, and it’s not just alive and well in the neighborhoods. It’s on the city councils, it’s on the township boards, it’s on the county commissions. That’s the biggest threat. I believe if we leave too much and continue to provide too much authority to those making a decision at the local level and don’t check it and keep it reigned in, they’d like to zone us right out.

Andrew: Yeah, I’ve seen it time and time again where just because you’re the only mobile home park in town, they want to shut you down. They don’t want you there, and they think it’s an eyesore. Yeah, I agree. That’s a very, very big risk in certain markets. 

John, this has been wonderful. I really appreciate you coming on. If any of our listeners would like to get a hold of you or talk more about some of the initiatives you guys are doing with your wonderful work up in the State of Michigan, how could they get ahold of you?

John: I’m easy to find. Visit our website, www.michhome.org. You can certainly reach me via email. You can reach me on my cell phone, (517) 449-0487. If you google Michigan Manufactured Housing Association, go to the website, you can see the staff contact, that type of stuff. Reach out to the association. We need as many people and members under the tent as soon as we can have.

Andrew: Awesome. Thanks so much for that. We’ll put all of that info in the show notes. Before we log off, John, what’s one last bit of important advice you would give a mobile home park owner-operator, investor that’s listening right now?

John: Goodness. I think we’ve touched on about everything. I will say this. For those who are listening, whether it’s in Michigan or anywhere else in the country, engage in your state association. That doesn’t have to be politically, as I was describing. It could be in anything. 

Be aware of what your state level association is doing. They’re looking to provide value to you as an owner-operator regardless of where you are. Understanding that and knowing what’s going on in your state association, that can make your operation more profitable. It certainly can make your industry more fulfilling.

Andrew: Totally. Well, thank you so much, John. Really appreciate you coming on the show. That’s it for today, folks. Reminder, please leave a review if you got value out of the show. Thank you all so much for tuning in.